What if hitler won

Hitler plainly saw his principal allies, Italy and Japan, as partners of convenience. As a fascist state, Italy might be permitted its new empire on a permanent basis, but Japan, after doing the dirty work of conquering China, the eastern half of the Soviet Union, southeast Asia, Australasia, and the central Pacific, would eventually be conquered in turn—though only after the destruction of the United States, the last great power free of Axis control.

Weinberg discerned only the vaguest German plans for how it intended to deal with this last problem, the elimination of the United States. As late as the autumn of , Hitler continued to see the British as his most dangerous adversary in the West, notwithstanding the fact that by then the United States was contributing not only the most manpower in the European Theater of Operations but also the most tanks, aircraft, and artillery.

Indeed, by that point American military aid was propping up the war efforts of every nation fighting the Axis powers. Hitler assumed that the Japanese would obligingly remain at war with China and the United States until he could gobble up his erstwhile allies.

Yet Imperial Japan clearly understood that its partnership with Nazi Germany was temporary, especially given the virulent racism on which Nazism rested. And history is replete with reversals of alliance in the face of new circumstances. Thus, long before Nazi Germany could have realized its ultimate aim of world conquest, the rest of the world would have surely set aside their differences in the face of this obvious, massive, and implacable threat.

View all 5 comments. Mark Hebwood I remember that when "Downfall" came out in ! Nowadays, pe I remember that when "Downfall" came out in ! Nowadays, people would rather argue that portraying him as a human and not as some non-human monster This is indeed a subtle, but hugely interesting and important subject, I find.

First off, I wonder whether people would indeed be so enlightened these days. You mentioned the tricky reception of Wuerger's Stella which I was not aware of , but a bit less recently there were two instances that had me sit up and take note. Vermes' satire was published in , and the Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte finally published its excellent edition, after a lot of controversial discussion, as late as I have long suspected that there may be a darker side to statements claiming that any portrayal of Hitler other than as a psychotic monster would either support his values or trivialise the pain he caused.

The problem is that if one demonises Hitler and portrays him as a psychotically twisted pervert, one also absolves oneself from any responsibility. If he is a psycho, and therefore nothing like normal people, like people I know, and certainly not like me, then there is also no danger that I may have been taken in by him, that I, as a life-competent, enlightened human being, may not have realised what a person he really was, that I may not have known what was going on, or that I may not have wanted to know.

If we lock Hitler away, we're safe. But if we do not, and portray him as human, then we let him in. Every German needs to come to terms with NS Germany in some way, even those who were born after the regime ended and who therefore do not have anything to do with it.

But the easiest way to deal with that past is to pretend that we would not have been taken in by him. That we would not have thought him charming, perhaps. That we would have been immune to visions of national grandeur, and would have continued to think for ourselves, even in the face of a crushing and dehumanising totalitarian regime. If we portray Hitler as human, we give up that defence. And I have a suspicion that we are not yet ready to do that.

We may not like what we find if we ask ourselves the question: would I really have been able to see Hitler coming, and would I have been able to preserve my own humanity? It is much safer to avoid this question, and avoid it we can if we portray Hitler as a monster. This dynamic is what Vermes set out to examine in his book. I thought the idea was excellent but the execution unfortunately lacking.

Still, I think these are important, although extremely painful, lessons to learn. Meike Mark wrote: "If we lock Hitler away, we're safe. But if we do not, and portray him as human, then we let him in Nowadays, this is the majority opinion: That we have to confront the fact that a human being, together with many other human beings, was able to commit such a monstrous crime, that being human does not prevent us from acting like monsters - on the contrary, humans can choose to do so.

Many people were certainly choosing the route you describe to push away the problem, but I think it's also true that Germany has long struggled how to adress and process the topic in an adequate way - many other post-genocidal countries have never broadly adressed it, or don't even use the word genocide for the, well, genocides they committed see Learning from the Germans: Race and the Memory of Evil. So the discussion around how Hitler should be portrayed, the framing of the narrative was an important stage of the discussion, and frankly: When I look at some sentimental love stories set during the Holocaust that you can find here on Goodreads, I think that's disgusting.

The Holocaust is not a backdrop, a theater device, a narrative instrument to heighten the drama in a written soap opera - I know this is a very German sensibility that stems from this discussion described above, but I think it's an important discussion to be had.

When I see how Americans, in the context of Lost Children Archive , compare the crisis at the Mexican border to the Native American genocide, that degree of stupidity makes me want to scream - it's the result of not questioning your own national narrative. I haven't read Vermes, but I have to admit that I only heard bad things about it, because the writing is said to be poor and the humor very questionable. Oct 09, Kate Quinn rated it it was amazing. A chilling alternate history that poses the question: what if Hitler won?

A German investigator named March tries to solve a murder, but what really rivets the attention is the world he takes for granted. This is a world where the German Reich has swallowed France, England, and Russia, President Kennedy Joe, not JFK is meeting with Hitler to declare a pact between nations, and a typical personals ad in the newspaper reads "Pure Aryan doctor desires male progeny through marriage with healthy, A A chilling alternate history that poses the question: what if Hitler won?

This is a world where the German Reich has swallowed France, England, and Russia, President Kennedy Joe, not JFK is meeting with Hitler to declare a pact between nations, and a typical personals ad in the newspaper reads "Pure Aryan doctor desires male progeny through marriage with healthy, Aryan, virginal, young, unassuming, thrifty woman; broad-hipped, flat-heeled, and earringless essential.

This is a book to read in a growing daze of horror; you will flip the last page with a shudder of thanks that this world, if just barely, didn't happen. View 1 comment. Oct 09, Jon Nakapalau rated it it was amazing Shelves: war , politics , favorites , fiction , nazi-germany. As Hitler's 75th birthday approaches the murder of a man who has hidden ties to the top of the party is discovered.

Detective Xavier March must now walk a tightrope over the chasm of state secrets as the Gestapo tries to cut the rope Dec 20, Dimitri rated it really liked it Shelves: fiction , sf-fantasy. There are many books out there set in the universe of an Axis victory, but few capture its atmosphere so well: the suffocating conformism that indoctrinates the post-war generation, the casual cruelty of the regime's Praetorians, the ubiquitous double faces and hidden blemishes of the fanatics. When March travels to Switzerland "from one prison into another" he pretty much sums up the mental state of the dissident in any dictatorship.

Jun 27, Darwin8u rated it really liked it Shelves: , british , fiction , crime-noir , dystopia. It's my birthday and late, so I'll review this tomorrow. If Gestapo dreams don't get me. But for now, Robert Harris is definitely a guilty pleasure. Xavier March in an investigator with the criminal police, and he is as stereotypical a noir detective as they come: divorced, disillusioned, unhealthy, incapable of letting go when he smells something fishy… He works in Berlin, the capital of what is now Greater Germany, a veritable monument of a city entirely devoted to the glory of the F.

Early one morning, he is called up to investigate a dead body fished out of a lake. Said body once was an important bureaucrat, so the Gestapo takes over the case, but not before March notices something strange about the case and goes down a dark and dangerous rabbit hole.

And considering we know how things really turn out, the reveals are not quite a shock so much as an invitation to imagine what it would be like to realize your entire society is built on the fruits of genocide.

But the predictable elements are easily forgiven because the gritty noir novel atmosphere and creepy setting are captured so well. View all 8 comments. This book had been on my radar for quite some time and I finally got it from my library. It was a very enjoying read indeed. The book presents an anternate history scenario where Hitler has won the Second World War and Eastern Europe has been conquered by the Nazis.

The nations of Western Europe has been forced into a trading block and the German currency is accepeted all over continental Europe. Hitler's birthday is approaching and people are getting ready to celebrate. A body has been discovered This book had been on my radar for quite some time and I finally got it from my library. A body has been discovered and enters Xavier March, ex-navy and presently an investigator in Kripo - the Kriminal Polizei.

The body turns out to be that of a once-powerful Nazi and thus begins the investigation. March is a good detective and a decent human being. He is what the Nazis term as - "asocial"- he does not care for the Nazi ideology, is not a party member, ignores the Hitler Salute. He is divorced and has a strained relationship with his ten year old son, who has been brainwashed to hate him.

His work is the only thing that keeps him going. Some people have compared this novel with the Gorky Park - an excellent novel and drawn similarities between Xavier March and Arkady Renko, the protagonist of Gorky Park.

Certainly the two characters are similar but in my humble opinion it is not fair to compare the two novels. March finds that his investigation is obstructed by the Gestapo and a certain, very high ranking official is involved. The Head of Kripo offers to help but can he be trusted! Human beings can do anything to further their agenda or hide their crimes. Taking the help of an American reporter based out of Berlin, March risks everything to solve the case.

I won't say anything more about the story - I don't want to spoil the plesaure in case you want to read it. Robert Harris has done a splendid job. The suffocating restrictions and continual brainwashing, the draconian laws regarding inter-racial relationships, the fear of living under a dictatorial regime is evident all through out the book but everything has been incorporated seamlessly into the narrative. The focus on the mystery never wavered.

The book does not have the high octane action one can expect in a Frederick Forsyth novel but the atmosphere of mystery and tension makes up for it very well.

The reason behind the crime and how March solves it would keep you engrossed. I am very satisfied and would recommend it lovers of thrillers. Even if you don't like "alternate history", you can give this book a try. A solid if somewhat template like thriller, with a lukewarm hero, to finish of the reading year However this war may end, we have won the war against you; none of you will be left to bear witness, but even someone were to survive, the world would not believe him.

There will perhaps be suspicions, discussions, research by historians, but there will be no certainties, because we will destroy the evidence together with you. And even if some proof should remain and some of you survive, people will sa A solid if somewhat template like thriller, with a lukewarm hero, to finish of the reading year However this war may end, we have won the war against you; none of you will be left to bear witness, but even someone were to survive, the world would not believe him.

And even if some proof should remain and some of you survive, people will say that the events you describe are too monstrous to be believed: the will say that they are the exaggerations of Allied propaganda and will believe us, who will deny everything, and not you. Xavier March is drawn into an elaborate plot after a body of a high party official is found at a lake in Berlin. Soon he is embroiled in bureaucratic infighting between the Gestapo Geheime StaatsPolizei and the Kriminal Polizei, his son hates him and he gets involved with a young American journalist.

Also Swiss bankers, the Wannsee conference and George Orwell like interrogations feature prominently. This is because Fatherland feels quite template like and as a standard thriller. But only at the end, when the final solution is touched upon by Harris, the society starts to feel less normal and the monstrosity and the ethical questions whereupon this alternative history is based, starts to loom large.

In the end the below quote, attributed to the Fuhrer, captures this feeling, and the heart of the problem this novel tries to tackle, maybe best: People presently revered the French Revolution, but who now remembered the thousands of innocents who died?

Revolutionary times were governed by their own laws. When Germany had won the war, nobody would ask afterwards how we did it. What if Hitler had won? During that period, Germany had the time to build their own atomic bombs, ushering in a cold war with America. With Germany enjoying unprecedented economic success coupled with a vast, overreaching empire, a question still lingered — whatever happened to the Jews?

However, rumors of mass slaughter still persist. The story follows Xavier March, an investigator for the Kripo the German police as he looks into the mysterious death of Josef Buhler, a secretary and deputy governor of Nazi-controlled Krakow. He forms a friendship with an American reporter and together, they begin to establish a connection among the deceased. My only complaint deals with what felt like a shoehorned romantic connection between March and MaGuire. Otherwise, I thought this was a hell of a read.

View all 3 comments. Jul 28, Jill Hutchinson rated it really liked it Shelves: wwi-wwii , fiction. Since history is so interesting I often wonder why I pick up a a"what if" book based on a mix of fact and fiction. But after seeing some good reviews on this book, I thought I would give it a chance and am glad that I did.

Basically the story is a police procedural but it is set in a Europe which is now under Nazi rule. It is set in and Europe is preparing to celebrate Hitler's 74th birthday. Xavier March is an officer in the Kripo , a police unit one step below the Gestapo and is called to t Since history is so interesting I often wonder why I pick up a a"what if" book based on a mix of fact and fiction.

Xavier March is an officer in the Kripo , a police unit one step below the Gestapo and is called to the scene of an apparent suicide of a former Nazi high official. It becomes obvious to him that this is not a suicide but a murder. This discovery leads him to other suspicious deaths of Nazi elite and straight into big trouble. I don't want to give away too much of the complex plot since it would involve too many spoilers. I will only say that Officer March finds information that would throw the world into chaos and expose the horrors of the Holocaust among other incidents.

The author paints a believable picture of what Europe would look like if the Nazi's had won the war and how German society would have evolved. He also explains in his Afterword, that the book uses, for the most part, characters who actually existed and their biographical details are correct up to Their subsequent fates were different and he describes each. This is a fascinating book, well written, and believable.

Aug 11, Erin rated it liked it Shelves: movie , the-kennedy-s , august Meanwhile during an investigation into what seems like a routine homicide, SS detective Xavier March and a beautiful American journalist uncover a deadly and long concealed conspiracy that if brought to light could spell the end of the Third Reich. Fatherland is alternate World War II history and as someone who has always been deeply fascinated by that time period, when I discovered this book at a library book sale battered and falling apart I had to have it.

This book was in such bad shape that they gave it to me for free and I had to duct tape together in order to read it and I was afraid that it was going to fall apart the entire time I was reading it. It survived! I don't know how I feel about this book. Fatherland has such an interesting premise but I at times felt bored by the writing. For rather long jags nothing happens and when the plot picks up it never went in the direction I wanted it to. Where was Hitler? Why wasn't more time devoted to explaining how Nazi Germany's WW2 victory affected the rest of the world?

Does Israel exist? What do American Jews think happened to their European brothers and sisters? What happen to Churchill, Roosevelt and Eisenhower? I just had a lot of questions and I didn't think Robert Harris explored them at all.

Why have an American character if you weren't gonna explain the alternate history American timeline. Also the ending was anticlimactic. As soon as it was getting good and we were about the blow the lid off of things the book just ends As annoyed as I was by this book I did enjoy it more than I disliked it.

I just went into this thinking I would love it and I'm kinda bummed that I didn't. Hopefully its somewhere in the vast recesses of the internet. Two-Thirds in and the shock of the drama reverberates, no longer is detective story pedestrian for me, from here after I am gripped to the last page.

For me the plot is predictable and the character of Xavier March is dull to the discoveries he would unwittingly make. This land is ruled by fear; where your own family can report you to be disciplined. The story also illustrates how Nazi Germany committed these crimes with the support of other countries. But in the end, what made this story a horrifically shocking read is the contrast.

Harris mixes this ordinariness with how a dark truth is unravelled. And though I was not smitten in how Harris told this tale, the crimes that happened during the Second World war should not be forgotten because those mistakes should not be repeated.

Harris, in how he tells this story, does not let us forget this. Fatherland takes a well worn subject, what if Nazi Germany had been successful in WWII, and takes an unusual avenue to explore it. Unlike other books on the subject Fatherland does not concern itself with the big military picture and it doesn't dally in the political decisions that changed history.

It takes the changes as a given and explores this strange and horrifying world through the eyes of a simple police officer trying to solve a crime.

It infuses a 's Nazi dominated Europe with all t Fatherland takes a well worn subject, what if Nazi Germany had been successful in WWII, and takes an unusual avenue to explore it.

It infuses a 's Nazi dominated Europe with all the recognizable elements of a noir mystery thriller: abuse of power, a femme fatale, a man just trying to find truth in an otherwise corrupt system, death, deception, and double crosses.

The world that this story takes place in is indeed a depressing one. Nazi Germany has come to dominate Europe and is locked into a cold war with the United States. Xavier March, a member of the German police, is called out to a strange crime scene that propels him down the rabbit hole of Nazi secrets, power plays, and lost history.

All the keystones of classic Noir setting are present in this book, but with much higher stakes because, you know, Nazis. Harris does a top notch job introducing the reader to this strange world. Tantalizing hints are dropped about how this world in different but it never becomes the focus of the book.

He explores just what it would be like to live under a Nazi police state through the eyes of a war Veteran that remembers life before the party and is somewhat disenchanted with its ideology. We see how such a society warps and controls children, replacing family, community, or religion with the Party and the State as a center for loyalty.

It creates a nation of followers that Harris brilliantly portrays and March cunningly exploits at various points in the book. Because of this setting the acceptable bounds of behavior of the bad guys is much wider. That cop who threatens to put a bullet in your head isn't crooked, he is just following orders from higher up and would likely get a commendation for his act.

March himself is a part of the system and faces the unique challenge of seeking the truth in an environment that is both hostile and fatal for the seekers of certain truths. Harris also sets up the politics of Nazi Germany quite well.

It isn't some monolithic entity of pure evil, but a highly bureaucratic one with many factions vying for power. Harris explores the dark nooks and crannies of the Nazi power structure through March's investigation and gives the reader a good feel for what the banality of evil looks like writ large spoiler alert: it doesn't look good.

What I most enjoyed about this book was how vibrant the characters were. Relationships felt natural and organic. The repartee with March and his partner see below were great and felt like a friendship that was many years old. The SS officers' behaviors made sense within the context of their character and you even feel a bit a sympathy for one towards the end.

While I typically get very little out of romantic plot lines, the American reporter that March falls in with was also a great, fully realized character instead of just being a pretty face and love interest. Finally, the prose in this book was outstanding. Harris really knows how to effectively turn a phrase using the voice of his characters: "That was how it was with young men of his age.

They heard the same speeches, read the same slogans, eaten the same one pot meals in aid of Winter Relief. They were the regime's workhorses, had known no authority but the party, and we're as reliable as the Kripo's Volkswagens.

Can you imagine what it'll be like with Kennedy in town as well? I'm thinking about my sleep What did you expect to pick up at the morgue? Be exact! A skin rash from his shitty clothes. All in all this was a great book that I enjoyed reading a lot. Some of that may be due to my love of WWII history of which this book does delve in to , but I found the setting engrossing, the characters engaging, and the plot both surprising and perfectly reasonable.

It kept me guessing what would happen next and followed its internal consistency its natural end. While I doubt he will, I would love it if Harris would write another book or twenty set in this alternate world. Fatherland is definitely worth checking out for those who enjoy alternative histories, WWII, thrillers, or some combination of the three. When Hitler rose to power with what sounds today like extreme racism and hatred, it resonated with many disgruntled Germans.

Via: dailymail. Had Hitler won, he had big plans for the United Kingdom. Hitler ended up losing so many air assets that he decided not to invade. But in the case that Germany was allowed to freely take over the UK, Hitler intended to turn the islands into living space and military bases; protecting Europe from threats to the west mainly the United States. Via: holocaustonline. Japan and Germany both conducted scientific experiments on their enemies. The Nazis tried three main categories of human experimentation; combat related experiments, pharmaceutical trials and genetic testing.

Jews underwent unnecessary surgical procedures without anesthetics. They were guinea pigs for head injury trials, they were used to test the limits of hypothermia. The Nazis exposed concentration camp prisoners to chemical, radiological and biological agents to test how the human body reacts. They were forced into high pressure chambers to see how the brain handles altitude.

If the prisoners survived the tests, which most did not, they were eventually executed anyway. The Japanese conducted similar tests on their prisoners of war. Unit was a chemical, biological and radiological research and development unit in Japan that tortured prisoners and recorded the biological outcomes.

Via: bigthink. Families would be split and some sides would be murdered or exiled, as would neighbors and friends. Plenty of Germans would and did disapprove of the Nazi campaign. Any dissent would not be tolerated. A Fascist government has no tolerance for freedom of speech. Industry, commerce, media, art and religion would all be suppressed. History would be re-written. Nationalism and blind loyalty would be the only acceptable political stance. Via: thinglink. Perhaps not quite to the extent that North Korea worships the Kim family, but a lack of loyalty to Hitler would indicate dissent.

There would probably be flattering, official pictures of Hitler in every restaurant, coffee shop, subway and government building. And desecration of his image would likely carry heavy penalties. Via: bgr. The United States has always had one big advantage when it comes to foreign relations — geography. With friends to the north and a relatively benign continent below, any potential enemies have to travel far to reach the homeland.

So invasion, while possible, is much more difficult. If the United States were defeated, it would probably have to be via nuclear attack the possibility of a nuclear Germany to follow. With that being said, Germany and Japan did have plans for the United States. Though grandiose, Japan wanted the west coast of the United States to become a puppet state and a military zone to dominate the Pacific.

Many historians have speculated how the U. The Man in the High Castle, a novel depicting an alternative history, suggested that Japan would take the west coast Washington, Oregon and California as a puppet state. Via: minutewaltz